One of the first books I read when I became a Christian 33 years ago was Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis. I imagine that most people reading this blog are familiar with Lewis’ writing, but if you aren’t, I highly recommend this book. Or, if you prefer good fiction, then you might want to begin with The Chronicles of Narnia.
All of his books have some very quotable lines. Here’s one of many from Mere Christianity:
If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world.
Note added: That quotation is put in its surrounding context in this post. Also, there is an interesting discussion in the comments below that I would encourage you to read. Comments on all posts are still open.
Barry Wallace
theoparadox
pijohnson
September 7, 2008 at 7:30 pm |
I keep seeing that same C.S. Lewis quote thrown around the internet. I’m curious, do you believe that Lewis was really onto something?
If I dare suppose for a moment that I evolved into a relatively intelligent being absent the existence of a God, I feel that I might still wonder about such metaphysical quandaries as “what’s the meaning of life?” or “what is my purpose?” In other words, I’m not convinced that desire alone requires the possibility of fulfillment.
Of course, I assume that C.S. Lewis felt the same way, else he could have spared us his mountain of books and just left of us with that simple terse proof of God.
September 7, 2008 at 10:21 pm |
Thanks for stopping by and commenting. I do, in fact, believe Lewis was onto something.
Lewis was a careful thinker, and a former atheist, which means he wrestled with a multitude of metaphysical quandaries both as an unbeliever and as a believer. In neither case were all doubts erased from his mind.
Here are a couple of other excerpts from his writings that shed some additional light, I think, both on his reasoning and on your reflections.
“Now Faith…is the art of holding on to things your reason has once accepted, in spite of your changing moods. For moods will change, whatever view your reason takes. I know that by experience. Now that I am a Christian I do have moods in which the whole thing looks very improbable: but when I was an atheist I had moods in which Christianity looked terribly probable. This rebellion of your moods against your real self is going to come anyway. That is why Faith is such a necessary virtue: unless you teach your moods where they get off, you can never be either a sound Christian or even a sound atheist, but just a creature dithering to and fro, with its beliefs really dependent on the weather and the state of its digestion.” (Mere Christianity)
“Atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning. . .” C.S. Lewis Mere Christianity
“A theory which explained everything else in the whole universe but which made it impossible to believe that our thinking was valid, would be utterly out of court. For that theory would itself have been reached by thinking, and if thinking is not valid that theory would, of course, be itself demolished. It would have destroyed its own credentials. It would be an argument which proved that no argument was sound-a proof that there are no such things as proofs-which is nonsense. Thus a strict materialism refutes itself for the reason given long ago by Professor Haldane: `If my mental processes are determined wholly by the motions of atoms in my brain, I have no reason to suppose that my beliefs are true … and hence I have no reason for supposing my brain to be composed of atoms.’” [Haldane, J.B.S., "Possible Worlds," Chatto & Windus: London, 1927, p.209] But Naturalism, even if it is not purely materialistic, seems to me to involve the same difficulty, though in a somewhat less obvious form. It discredits our processes of reasoning or at least reduces their credit to such a humble level that it can no longer support Naturalism itself.” (Lewis, C.S., “Miracles: A Preliminary Study,” [1947], Fontana: London, Second edition, 1963, reprint, pp.18-19. Ellipses Lewis’)
September 9, 2008 at 3:07 am |
I am quite fond of this quote by C.S. Lewis. It demonstrates his expertise in manipulating language into seemingly logically consistent streams that further his agenda. Notice that he chooses to credit one’s “mood” as the sole source of one’s doubt. It’s an obvious choice; moods are flippant, irrational, and inconstant. To tame one’s variable mood, he calls upon “reason.” Again, it’s an obvious choice; reasons are objective, thorough, and consistent. Of course, Lewis did more than choose his words wisely: he redefined the mechanics of the doubting person. Consider the first sentence of his quote reworded in an arguably more honest form: “faith is the art of holding onto beliefs in spite of reason.” And as you might guess, I completely agree with this latter statement.
You might accuse that I have committed the same fallacy as Lewis; namely, that I have simply manipulated language into seemingly consistent streams in order to further my agenda. I accept the burden of arguing otherwise.
C.S Lewis wrote Mere Christianity more than 50 years ago– predating the mainstream acceptance of the Big Bang Theory, evolution, and other scientific jabs at religious institutions. Perhaps back in 1952 (at least more than today) one could “reason” the existence of God. But these days, in an era where science pulls the curtain on even the most complex, beautiful, and curious phenomenon, it is impossible to find a “proof” of God in the natural word. Therefore, rather than defining faith as sticking to one’s “reasons” as C.S. Lewis asserts, I define faith as sticking to one’s “beliefs.” Fair enough?
Now consider the roots of doubt. Doubt– in Christianity or any other belief— surfaces for a variety of reasons. Possibly the least common of which is a simple mood swing. Doubt more often arises because one has difficulty reconciling the claims of Christianity with some conflicting, but seemingly irrefutable, piece of evidence. Lewis suggested that we close our minds to such evidence for the sake of soundness. Although perhaps not his intention, Lewis is encouraging a most asinine and dangerous approach to belief: blind observance. I feel that recasting and legitimizing the antagonist in Lewis’ story as honest and pensive “reason” rather than “changing moods” better reflects one’s struggle with faith.
September 9, 2008 at 6:10 am |
Hi, James. Not all proofs are scientific, nor do they need to be in order to be genuine proofs.
There are ample proofs to convince an atheist like Lewis or a life-long scientist and atheist like Antony Flew to recognize they were wrong. That’s the point of the other two quotes above by Lewis.
This exchange could go on forever without a resolution. If you’d like to pursue this line of thinking, below are a couple of other brief articles you could read.
This will be my final comment on this thread. I would challenge you to read the gospels and take the message to heart. We will all one day stand before God (whether we believe he exists or not) and give an account of our lives. I pray that you would see that before it’s too late.
Can You Prove God Exists?
Argument from Design
September 9, 2008 at 10:20 am |
Jhames,
It occurs to me, at the end of the day, that neither the atheist, or the Christian is going to prove their point, if empirical evidence is ultimately the measuring stick.
Having no such evidence, we then find ourselves attempting to use our reason to prove or disprove God. This conversation has been occurring for generation, after generation.
Frankly, although the conversation seems to bring amusement to many, it seems futile to me.
You might believe that your ancestors crawled out of a mud puddle, where I believe that I was created by God and even more incredibly, chosen as one of his elect to spend eternity with him as his son.
If your position at death is right, then you merely rot. If the Christian’s position proves to be true, then you spend eternity, in a new glorified body, that doesn’t burn, and are tormented in hell for all eternity.
Jhames, your argument is not with man. Your argument is with God. The real question is this, has God chosen you to spend eternity with him?
The Bible teaches that God draws a man to himself. If the man responds to this yearning, then God regenerates his heart and things become a little more clear.
You are not going to understand the things of God because your heart, assuming that you are not Christian, is black with sin.
I have a very simple request. Search your heart. If there is the slightest of inklings to explore more of Christ, then do so my friend.
Secondly, do so only in the Scriptures. Don’t read man’s words, go directly to the Scriptures. God has told us that he reveals himself through those words. Don’t spend your life on the Internet arguing in folly, go read the source of the “folly”.
God does not want you to burn forever in torment. He is calling you, right now, to hear his call. Right now, in these words, the God of the universe is pursuing Jhames.
You must accept this call, or reject it.
My heartfelt plea to you, is don’t reject it from man’s reasonings. Go read his words. Seek to understand them, and then make your decision.
I would recommend that you spend some time reading the Book of John. Invest some time.
You have invested quite a fair amount of time building your blog to have these conversations. Simply invest an equal amount of time in the Book of John and see what you might discover.
My prayers are with you Jhames.
In all your getting…get your name is the Lamb’s Book of Life.
September 9, 2008 at 1:14 pm |
Barry–
The links you provided are broken. I am interested in reading about unscientific proofs, especially proofs of God. Can you please fix these?
David–
Wow, thank you. I appreciate you taking the time to pray for me. You devote more time to my salvation than I.
I have a question about your particular flavor of Christianity. You ask “has God chosen you to spend eternity with him?” Are you implying that God has predetermined my salvation? Or that God will make that choice when I die, based on the merits of my life? If I’m not mistaken, most Christians subscribe to the later. Your tense confuses me—“has chosen” versus “will choose.”
It’s a matter of free will, of course. Most Christians insist that God has a plan for their lives, but that they can choose to follow that plan. God may “work in his mysterious ways” to tend us in the direction he wishes for us, but in the end, it remains our choice. If you feel that God has already chosen whether you and I will spend eternity with him, then you’re removing this common assertion of free will. If, for example, you disciple someone, you’re not truly changing that person’s heart and saving their soul—you’re just mindlessly trudging the tracks of your life. Scary thought.
Also, you appear to weigh heavily on Scripture. If you wouldn’t mind, I would appreciate you reading and commenting on the following article.
the bible is the inspired word of god
September 9, 2008 at 2:23 pm |
James,
I appreciate your graciousness in this discussion. I said that I wouldn’t comment on this thread again, but here I am.
Primarily, I wanted to apologize for the broken links and let you know that they should work fine now.
Second, I agree with David and his reliance on Scripture. In response to your article on the Bible, some of the statements in it, such as the “earliest fragment of the Bible dates only to the 3rd or 4th century” are inaccurate and based on common misconceptions.
For better information, I would suggest the following links, as a start:
The Historicity of the New Testament
The Historical Reliability of the Gospels
Finally, on the subject of proofs, here’s another good article:
Objection Overruled
Thanks again, James. I too am praying for you.
September 9, 2008 at 4:00 pm |
The articles on proof state that one can prove a statement either scientifically or philosophically. I am happy to continue a discussion on the philosophical evidence for a Christian God. Let’s do this; I find it most interesting.
Second, you can hardly claim that “better” scholarship on the historical reliability of the bible comes from two websites, bethinking.org and probe.org, whose missions are to “prepare all Christians to provide an answer to those who deny the truth of Christianity” and to “assist the church in renewing the minds of believers with a Christian worldview and to equip the church to engage the world for Christ,” respectively. Honestly, Barry, you must understand that such research is necessarily biased.
For a genuinely scholarly approach to the historical reliability of the Bible, I recommend the following lecture presented at my graduate school, Stanford University:
You will especially appreciate the Q&A section following the lecture. Many Christians present some probing questions.
September 9, 2008 at 4:02 pm |
Sorry, here’s a fixed link:
Stanford Lecture Series
September 9, 2008 at 4:47 pm |
Hi, James. I’m very familiar with Bart Ehrman. He’s interesting and well-educated, but certainly not irrefutable.
I understand that I did not send you to scholarly websites, but there is no more reason to believe that the research on those sites is biased, than there is to believe that the research on an atheist’s blog is biased.
As for the accuracy of the statements on those websites: (1) The authors themselves have fine credentials. J.P. Moreland, for instance, is a scholar and educator with a Ph.D. in philosophy from USC. (2) Their research is both thorough and accurate. I could provide plenty more links substantiating that, but it seems rather pointless.
James, my friend, we are going in circles and getting nowhere. Respectfully, I will now remove myself from this discussion. You and others are free to continue.
My prayer is that you would discover the Truth and be set free, if indeed that is what you really want. Once again, I appreciate your courtesy in spite of our disagreements.
Best wishes.
September 9, 2008 at 7:55 pm |
Jhames,
I appreciate your considerate responses. To be honest with you, it seems folly for me to engage in a conversation regarding the Doctrine of Election with you (God’s choosing of me).
The Scriptures teach that these things are foolishness to the Gentiles (seekers through “wisdom”).
Here are verses in 1 Corinthians where Paul describes this fact: http://tinyurl.com/6baasx
Again, if you are truly a seeker of truth, then you simply must spend some time in God’s word. Take a month and make a careful exploration of the Book of John.
If you have any particular questions regarding what you might find therein, I am honored to help.
I believe that it is my job to point you to Christ. I have done that Jhames. Now..the ball is in your court. Go read the gospel of John.
September 10, 2008 at 5:49 am |
Hi guys, wow. How weird. I can perfectly relate to both trains of thought here. Both just from different time periods of my life.
Jhames..if you happen to have a moment, please check out http://pulledthroughthenarrowdoor.blogspot.com and read the article titled “I Despise Christianity…”
Have a great day either way!
September 26, 2008 at 5:08 pm |
C.S. Lewis has some great books out there,
Mere Christianity is a personal favorite along with the screwtape letters and The great divorce
September 27, 2008 at 12:46 pm |
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